Planning the climb
Subject The search
(OOC - Mark - If Salix took the shape of an eagle and someone cast "Bull's Strength" on him, could he ferry any of the party up the cliff, (even if only Surin?) reducing the number of people Harp or Mund would need to ferry up? If this is feasible, Salix will suggest this to Harp).
Is Salix the only person carrying a rope? If there are more than one 50 ft length, can't they be tied together? If so, Salix will also suggest that he carry a rope up with himself, which he (or someone he ferries) can tie off to assist Harp or Mund in their climb.
In response to Harp's question about the horses, Salix will gather then horses, pray for "Speak with animals" and will tell them what is happening, and ask them to stick together and stay in the area until we return. To Harp he will say, "That is the best I can do. Horses are creatures of familiarity and habit. They will be anxious when we are gone and might be easily spooked. I believe they will stay in this area as long as they can, hopefully for the whole week, but I am unsure they have the capacity to remember such instructions for much longer than that, if even that long." (Mark, correct this if necessary.)
From: Randy
Subject The climb
Ranthir agrees to the plan but adds that perhaps Salix could lower down some of the ropes to assist in case something goes wrong with any of the spells as they near the top of the cliff.
From: Porter
Subject Climb
Mund has 50 ft. silk rope
From: Jason
Subject The Climb
Ragnar also has 50 ft of silk rope. The problem is, even if everyone has 50 ft of rope and we tie it all together, that's less than 400 feet. I get the impression that the cliff is taller than that.
It still might be useful to have rope near the top to make the last bit easier however, so if someone wants to figure that out Ragnar will pull out his rope.
From: Porter
Subject The climb
Mund thinks that's a great idea, and pulls out his rope as well.
From: Mark
Subject The climb
There is a total of 350 feet of rope in the party.
Mund has a climbers kit and Kal has some pulleys, but if I remember my physics about pulleys right, each pully you have doubles the amount of rope you need to get the advantage.
I would like some one to go through and figure out how many Reduce spells Allistair can cast in one day. Also who all can cast bulls strenght and how many flys Allistair can cast in one day.
Then go through the character sheets and figure up the weight of all characters and what they carry. If you guys can show me that this will work, then I will write it up that way. If I have to go through and do it I might miss something or add something in you do not want added and it might not go as planned.
From: Karl
Subject The climb
Can you tell me how much weight an eagle can carry, with and without Bull's Strength cast upon it?
From: Kevin
Subject The climb
OOC: Mark keep in mind the weight chart for the character is for a medium creature. A large creature can carry 2x that amont shown, so Harp should be able to carry 1400 lbs if he is Large w/ a 24 strength.
Guys, Harp don't want to climb. He want to fly.
Derek, assume that Salix will take care of himself, do you think Allistair can do this?
From: Porter
Subject The climb
Harp is not large. He is medium.
From: Mark
Subject The climb
An eagle has a base STR of 10. Bulls STR would add 4 for a total of 14. However it is a small creature so it's loads are 75% of medium.
So a normal eagle heavy load it 75lbs and with Bulls STR it is 131lbs
From: Mark
Subject The climb
However if the enlarge spell is used on him then he is a large creature and follows the weight rules, as would Mund.
With a Bull's STR and an enlarge spell Mund can carry 1040lbs of gear/people and Harp can carry 1400lbs.
Now thier own gear doubles in weight when they are enlarged
From: Porter
Subjec: The climb
This looks like the way to go. Let's build some sort of harness thing for everybody so that the enlarged/strengthened Harp can fly most of the people up to the top. Can anybody else besides Mund, Allistair, and Salix get to the top on their own?
From: Karl
Subject The climb
So Salix, in eagle form with Bulls STR would be able to carry Surin (at 35 lbs) and an additional 70-90 lbs of equipment no problem. It looks like he might be able to carry Kal on a second trip provided it's just Kal with no armor, weapons, or equipment. (Though Salix would understand if Kal objected since there's only a pound or so leeway).
Salix will suggest this as well as that he would be willing to ferry equipment for as many trips as he can.
From: Jason
Subject The climb
Something to keep in mind: we may be able to cast as many Bull's strength's as we want, but we're pretty limited as far as other spells go. Allistair, from what i can tell, can cast 5 reduces/enlarges in a day and 3 flys. As far as I know, Salix can stay shapeshifted all day if he wants. Enlarge lasts 1 minute per level, ie 5 minutes.
Important weights: Weight + load
Ragnar = 140 + 103 = 243
Allistair = 160 + 20 =180
Harp = 300 + 83 = 383
Kal = 130 + 39 = 169
Mund = 190 + 50 = 240
Ran = 142 + 51 = 193
Surin = 35 + 24 = 59
Now we've seen that an eagle can carry something like 100 pounds when he has bull's strength, so Surin and his gear goes up with Salix, costing no spells.
So, keeping track of Allistair's spells
Harp gets enlarged (1 enlarge)
Harp gets Bull's strength
Harp gets fly (1 enlarge, 1 fly): Can carry 1400 lbs.
Mund gives his gear to Ragnar, resulting in 153 load (his max for medium
encumbrance) and 293 total weight.
Ragnar gets reduced (2 en/re, 1 fly) resulting in 293/8 = 37
Salix flies Ragnar to the top
Harp gives his gear to Mund (before getting enlarged)
Harp picks up Allistair, Mund, Kal, Ran for a total of
180+273+169+193 = 815 lbs, assuming Mund agrees. If not, Ran and Kal take
Harp's gear and Mund climbs up on his own.
Results: Allistair casts 1 enlarge, 1 reduce, 1 fly spell
(Someone) casts 2 Bull's Strength spells
Salix flies up with Surin followed by reduced Ragnar
Harp flies up carrying 4 other members, for a total of 8 party members and all their carried gear.
If anyone has a bunch of gear that is not included in your load because its on your horse, but you'll need it, let us know. Ragnar can carry another 77 lbs. and Harp can carry almost 600. Heck he could fly up a couple of reduced packhorses, if they wouldn't panic.
Anyone see anything I missed?
From: Porter
Subject The climb
Good job.
Mund would rather climb up on his own (mostly a pride thing -- he doens't want to be carried like a baby), but could probably be persuaded if anybody had a good reason why he shouldn't
From: Mark
Subject The clinmb
Just remember that weight of reduced gear is halved while weight of reduced person is 1/8. Do not ask me to justify this. So you can not add the weight of the person and the weight of the gear and divide by 8.
I get this from the Players hand book where it talks about weight of armor and weapons.
Sorry.
However you are getting close.
ONe thing to remember for Allistair is that he can sacrifice a second level spell slot to memorize a 1st level spell.
From: Mark
Subject The climb
Salix can only do the eagle thing for 5 hours per day at this level.
Bulls STR is also a clerical spell. Harp and Ragnar can both cast several of them a day.
From: Derek
Subject The climb
A couple of things to add. Mark pointed out that I can fill my 2nd level spell slots with a 1st level spell. That gives me 4 additional enlarge/reduce spells. I also have a ring of spell storing that lets me store 3 1st level spells. That makes for a total of 12 possible enlarge/reduce and 3 fly spells. If it looks like time might be a factor, I should have enough memorized to be able to re-cast everything half-way up.
Also, we can carry as much of Harp's gear as possible, so that it will not increase in weight when he's enlarged.
Also, we have a few days, so we don't have to do all this at once. If Harp can't carry everyone up, we could have Harp carry half the people up, and Mund carry the other half. We could split it between two or three days if I don't have enough spells to do it all at once.
From: Porter
Subject The climb
If asked to, Mund is willing to fly up and carry others, but he won't suggest it on his own.
From: Karl
Subject The climb
Salix *could* ferry almost everyone up one at a time if they were reduced, no? He could at least do everyone except Mund and Harp, who should be able to carry nearly all the gear up between them, right?
From: Mark
Subject The Climb
IF they were reduced and their armor taken by someone else.
Also I will have to check to see if Salix has seen any bird that is larger than an eagle that can fly. A Medium bird with a STR of 10 can carry 25 lbs more.
From: Mark
Subject The climb
Actually your ring of spell storing only hold 3 spell levels, so it can hold 3 reduce/enlarge or 1 fly.
You do have a scroll with fly on it.
From: Jason
Subject The climb
Ok, I didn't realize that, but actually it doesn't make a huge difference. Ragnar was 140 + 153 -> 37, but now its 140 + 153 -> 18 + 76 = 94, which Salix can still carry. From what I can see we shouldn't need a long time or a lot of effort to get up, unless we wanted to get all the gear on the horses up. In fact, the only spell we're missing right now is the enlarge spell or we could do it tonight. Personally Ragnar would rather be through the portal as soon as possible in case it takes some time on the other side to do whatever it is we need to do.
I also noticed after I'd added up all those numbers that Ragnar doesn't even need to be reduced, really. Harp has enough muscle left over for the 293 lbs. Ragnar would add. That would save us a first level reduce, and also a Bull's strength because Salix wouldn't need it to carry just Surin. That would leave us only needing 1 enlarge, 1 strength, and 1 fly to get all of us up the cliff.
Yes, in case you were wondering, I do only buy store brand groceries and walk to school in the rain to save the $1.50 bus fare.
From: Porter
Subject The climb
And one rules lawer. :p
From: Kevin
Subject The climb
Harp, as leader of the group, listens to the various options available to them. It seems that there are multiple ways to get to the top -the question is how simple or complex do they want it to be. He will work with Allistair (who is obviously much brighter than Harp) on what number of what spells they will need.
OOC: I am going to suggest that Surin ride along with Salix, and that Harp carry everyone else, except Allistair. An enlarged Bull strengthed Harp can carry about everything we need, and if we need to make a second trip, Allistair can keep 1 fly in reserve. We will need 1 fly, 1 enlarge, 2 Bull strenght, 4 reduce.
Plan - Harp strips, gives his items to the others to distribute among themselves.
Salix talks to the horses asks them to stay in the area.
Allistair Enlarges Harp, at the same time Harp casts Bulls Strength on himself.
Salix turns into an eagle, Ragnar casts Bulls strength on him, Surin climbs on and flys up.
Allistair casts Reduce Person on Ran, Kal, Mund, and Ragnar. They climb on. Allistair casts Fly on Harp, Harp flys everyone up the cliff and drops them off. If there is additional gear, Harp can fly back down to get it.
Guys, any obvious errors in this plan. It is not the simplest or a thing of beauty, but does it have any fatal flaws a DM can exploit?
From: Porter
Subject The climb
Mund will resist being reduced and being carried. He'd much rather just climb up on his own.
From: Josh
Subject The climb
It doesn't look like we'll need it, but if we need to we can spend a
day, have Kal learn reduce pesron, and then we'll have a bunch more of
those we can cast.
Kal's still too low level to cast flight.
From: Kevin
Subject The climb
As Harp explains the plan, he sees Mund get a curious look on his face. When there is a break in the converstion, Harp approaches Mund to ask what the problem is. Mund tries to make like of things, but it is obvious to Harp that Mund is reluctant to "get magiked" as Mund might say.
Harp responds "Mund, I understand your misgivings. When I first joined the Order, it took me quite a while to get comfortable with the notion of relying on powers I could not touch directly. It has been a slow process for me to accept the powers my lord has granted me access to, through his grace. I can imagine that relying on just your brothers knowlede and skills would be an even more difficult task. I cannot force you to partake in this. I am sure that you are competent enough to scale the wall yourself, though it may take a very long time. I am concerned what your actions may communicate to the members of the rest of the party. If they see that Allistair's own brother will not trust his magic, what trust should they put in him. Come, swallow your pride, and trust in his training. If I have learned anything these past few years, it is that there is a time for muscles and fighting, and there is a time for magic. If, by his skills, he can get us all up to the top of this cliff in under 1/2 hour, the I think
we should give it a chance. If he fails, I will give you permission to beat him cross sides his head a few times. Just think of the songs you will be able to write about your bravery in trusting magic."
Harp will wait to see how Mund responds.
From: Porter
Subject The climb
"Just think of the songs you will be able to write about your bravery in trusting magic."
Mund pokes Harp in the chest. "Hey. I might not have studied in a fancy temple like you, but that doesn't mean I don't know when I'm being mocked. You think you're better than me, you dirty orc uchdorf*? You do it again and I'll kick your ass, but this time I won't do it friendly-like."
*bastard
From: Josh
Subject The climb
uh oh.....
I got 5gp on the big ugly one. Who's taking?
From: Porter
Subject The climb
Who's the big ugly one?
From: Josh
Subject The climb
I'll tell you after the fight. ;-)