Good and Evil, Salix, Negotiations and entry
Subject good and evil
Salix looks at Ran and shrugs. "If you feel the need to. It won't change our obligation if they also promise peace."
(ooc - Salix is lawful neutral. Good and evil are not absolutes to him, and it often baffles him how some try to pigeon-hole others into preset categories of good/evil, as if that made betrayal and murder justified somehow. /OOC)
From: Kevin
Subject Good and evil
OOC: Salix may not see a difference in the trustworthiness of good vs. evil creatures, but even St. Cuthbert, a LN diety, will not allow a follower to be LE. Evil types are more likely to violate a trust, whether through a narrow, self serving intrepretation of the rules or just plain evilness. Ran knows that some creatures are hard to trust (like 1/2 orcs :)).
From: Karl
Subject Good and evil
OOC: It's not that Salix doesn't see the difference. It's more that he thinks most people who think themselves "Good" often see too much of a difference. Suspicion of untrustworthiness isn't justification for being untrustworthy oneself. ;-)
From: Kevin
Subject Good and evil
OOC: Agreed. But after getting hosed by evil folks enough times, we good leaning people start to see a pattern. LOL.
From: Karl
Subject Good and evil
From a Druid perspective, though, you "Good" ones very often need the "evil" to keep you in check. Without them, you very often turn "evil" yourselves. It's like most of you can't keep hold of "goodness" except when you have something to contrast it to. And humans destroy nature as much as Orcs do (for instance). To a druid, it only matters a little that human destruction is methodical and Orc destruction is often wanton.
From: Porter
Subject Good and evil
Oh, the many evils that line of thought has been used to justify.
From: Randy
Subject Good and evil
"Our obligation will hold of course but better to be aware of any evil intention. I do however trust your ability to sense the motives of these people better than I am able to. I will leave it up to you to decide if you think this is necessary. We should be on guard either way. Being brought here and locked up like that would be enough to make any good man commit a harmful act."
From: Porter
Subject Good and evil
OOC: Evil alignment does not mean evil intention.
But then, I hate the whole concept of alignment in D&D, so it's no surprise that I and my characters try to undermine it as much as possible.
From: Karl
Subject Good and evil
On that note, I guess I should explicitly state that Salix would like a sense motive check on all of this exchange before opening the door.
And unless something comes out before noon, this it my last. Kevin has control of Salix until Tuesday, 5/30. (And just when it was getting interesting, too.)
Kevin, Salix understands the risk and is more than willing to be up front to bear the brunt of it. If someone sully's his good name by attacking these creatures first, they will find themselves fighting him as well. Other than that, you know what to do. ;-)
From: Mark
Subject Good and evil
Just remember that it is the DM who gets to decide these things, not the players. :)
You want to set up your own alignment system, run your own game.
From: Kevin
Subject Good and evil
OOC: Oh, Salix is going to be right up front in this. But he will have Mund at his side - those two seem to have a good understanding, so I (and Harp) want them to be the first to meet these creatures. If either of those two sense something wrong, they will be able to call the shot and let loose.
Karl, I may not have the prose you do, but I will try to keep Salix in character. **If** this degrades into a combat, any particular spell Salix would normally use first? Call Lightning? I have not really reviewed your character sheet, so bear with me on that.
IC: As the group prepares, Harp will whisper to Kal "We do not know that these creatures are evil. Lets keep our word until we have a reason to think they have not kept theirs.
From: Porter
Subject Good and evil
Summon Nature's Ally is one to not be forgotten, especially against groups.
From: Kevin
Subject Salix
Agreed, I should probably take a look at that this weekend.
From: Karl
Subject Salix
Yes, that is always on Salix's mind. It's probably his favorite ability. Don't forget that any prayer can be sacrificed for that level of SNA, and just as important, remember that you get more creatures (albeit weaker ones) if you summon, for instance, a level 2 ally type with a level 3 SNA prayer. This is sometimes good against groups since you can distract several enemies at once.
From: Kevin
Subject Salix
OOC: I think a couple of black bears or hippogriffs would make for some nice company.
Lets see what happens first.
From: Mark
Subject Negotiations
"We will move to the other end of the room. However, if you have lied to us we will kill you and eat you and chew your bones."
From: Porter
Subject Negotiations
"Fair enough. My name is Mund, and Salix and I are going to open the door."
From: Mark
Subject Negotiations
"Wait, give us time to move away from the door. Count to" there is a small pause " 10, slowly and then you can open the door."
From: Porter
Subject Negotiations
Mund moves to the door, taking point. He counts to ten in head, listening to see if he can hear the people behind the door moving.
Listen check, please?
From: Mark
Subject Negotiations
No listen check needed.
Mund waits by the door, counting to 10 slowly in his head. As he does he hears some heavy foot steps through the door, though they get fainter as he counts.
OODM: A listen check is really used to oppose a move silent. If the people are not trying to move silent, then as far as I am concerned, no real listen check is needed.
The above changes when trying to listen from a distance.
From: Porter
Subject Negotiations
Well, I thought that maybe they might be trying to move silently on each side of the door, waiting to ambush us. That's why I asked for a listen check. :)
From: Mark
Subject Negotiations
I understand. As far as Mund can tell they have moved off.
From: Porter
Subject Negotiations
Mund looks back to make sure that everybody else is ready. Mund has his shield out in one hand, but no weapon out, and he opens the door at a medium speed. He looks to see what he can see without entering the room yet.
From: Derek
Subject Negotiations
OOC: Well, at least it won't be a shock or surprise when these guys try and gut us. On the other hand, it would be nice to finish another encounter without having to kill something.
From: Mark
Subject Entry
Ok I want to make sure of the order people will enter. Mund, with Salix following. Then Harp and Ranthir. Then Ragnar and Kal. Then Surin and Allistair.
From: Porter
Subject Entry
I thought that at first only Mund and Salix were going to enter.
From: Kevin
Subject Entry
OOC: Only after we get a signal from Mund that things are how he (and Salix) expect them to be. We are not all rushing into the room. Porter made it pretty clear that he was opening the door and then peering in to see that they have moved off. I think we are all still a bit leary, though we will keep our word until given a reason to do otherwise (like dying).
From: Mark
Subject Entry
Ok but the order they will enter the room, when they do, is as listed?
From: Kevin
Subject Entry
OOC: Roughly, yes. If there are only 4 of them, Harp will probably keep Surin and Allistair in the hallway, just in case.
From: Derek
Subject Entry
Heh. If we had taken time to rest and re-memorize spells, Surin and I could perhaps take them out on our own. :P
From: Kevin
Subject Entry
OOC: Harp will be more concerned with not having all their eggs in one basket so to speak. Although, if they were all on the other side of the room, it would be a nice time to try a fireball.
From: Mark
Subject Entry
Ok I have one of my two RL games tonight, so I will not get a turn out until tomorrow afternoon.
If anyone else wants to say or do anything before I have Mund and Salix enter the room, you have until then to do or say it.