Round 2 actions, Mund, Prestige classes, out of town
Subject Round 2 actions
Ragnar will keep up the taunting and the attacking both.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
"Allistair, if you see a chance - one of those fireballs of yours on those things in the other room would really be helpful"
OOC: Mark, is dragging/moving an object a move action or standard action?
With that, Harp will attack the troll in front of him again.
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Depending on the size it may be both, but at least a move action.
However, moving something like a troll body, which weighs in at 500 lbs or so, would be a full round action that would provoke an AOO if in a threatened square. Also, it would require 2 hands to get a good grip.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
My question was more would it take the place of a standard action. If I remember correctly, I get 1 standard and 1 move, or 2 moves.
Harp can lift off the ground 600 lbs, and can push/drag 1,500 lbs., so 500 he can do. All I am looking at Harp reaching down with one hand, grabbing the troll and pulling it back and to the side so someone else can cut its head off.
Of course, now that I think about it more, it is still a large creature, and I probably do not have the space behind me to do that.
OK, forget that.
Next.
From: Karl
Subject Round 2 actions
It's not down yet, right?
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Correct, it is not down yet. Harp's owner is counting his trolls before they hatch.
From: Porter
Subject Mund
Why wasn't Mund able to get in a shot with his bow? He's got a straight shot, and he was waiting for an opening.
From: Mark
Subject Mund
It would have lowered your initiative score down to after Kal's since your shot would not have been clear until Kal moved out of the way.
However, since Mund is first in the list, he will get a clear shot at the start of next round.
From: Porter
Subject Mund
That's exactly what I wanted to happen -- wait for a shot, and take it when he can.
Can we retcon so that happens?
From: Mark
Subject Mund
You understand that Mund will now be last in the order for the rest of the combat, instead of first?
From: Porter
Subject Mund
I do. :)
From: Mark
Subject Mund
Ok I will add his attack on first thing tonight.
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
Great. Now that Mund is (conveniently) at the the end of the initiative order:
If the troll is still up, he shoots an arrow (or two?) at it.
If the troll is down, he'll draw his axe, rage, and step up into the open space at T3.
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Well the troll is still up, at least until Mund shoots his arrows. It may not be after he shoots. I will see tonight.
If Mund shoots two arrows, that is a full attack action and takes a full round. Mund can rage but not move this round.
If he shoots one arrow he can rage and move.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
You will notice that I did not write up that Harp tried to move the damn thing. I am just trying to make sure that I understand a not commonly used section of the rules.
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
Um, I was actually talking about round 2. But you make a good point, that possibly Mund will drop the troll with an arrow at the end of round 1.
Is it possible to have Mund shoot one arrow, see if he drops, and shoot another arrow if he doesn't, and move in if he does?
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Yes, that is one of the things I was talking about when I asked people to give me contingincies.
So Mund shoots one arrow. If the thing does not drop he shoots another arrow. If the thing does drop he drops his bow and pulls his axe as he rages and moves into position.
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
Right. And I want this to apply to both round 1 and 2. :)
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actoins
Actually, here's what I want to happen (on both turns):
If at any time there's either no troll standing in the opening, or if there is a troll who has already used his AOO, Mund will rage and step forward into the gap.
Otherwise, he'll keep shooting with arrows.
Basically, since Mund is so low in HP, he doesn't want to risk the AOO which would happen by advancing into the open spot, but he'd like to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with everybody else in hacking this thing to death.
From: Derek
Subject Round 2 actions
OOC: OK, I really have no idea waht is going on right now, but Allistair's possible actions are rather limited, so I guess it doesn't matter.
IC: Allistair will move around, trying to get to a spot where he can see in the room and shoot a fireball. He'll move anywhere that doesn't put him in danger of being hit by these trolls.
From: Ashley
Subject Round 2 actions
Surin is relieved to see that his hit did at least some damage to the troll, and could avoid them with some relative ease. He looks for any weak spot on the huge creature that could make it fall easier.
OOC: If there's any way for Surin to get in a flanking position without getting killed, he'll go for a sneak attack. Harp, being Harp, is in the way, but if there's some other way to get in position he'll do it. Would it be possible to go behind Harp and still be in a position to do anything to the troll?
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
There is a very hurt troll halfway through the door. It has Kal and Ran on one side, Harp on the other and Ragnar in front of it. Salix, Surin and Allistair are back more than 10 feet so that it can not reach them. Mund is next to them, shooting arrows and getting ready to move up next to Ragnar if the oppertunity presents itself.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
OOC: Excellent recap of the action so far.
However, the group knows (from Salix's comment) that if the troll goes down, they have to cut off it's head to keep it down. We don't know how long it will stay down before it gets up. We do not know what the brown thing is back in the room (probably some temple to the troll gods granting them extra regeneration). They also know that fire will hurt the trolls more so than normal weapons.
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
If Alley lets his brother know what he wants, Mund could move out of the way so that he can shoot a fireball in.
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Well the one advantage is that flanking only requires some one else to be on the other side. So Surin could move next to Harp and have Ran supply the flanking bonus to Surin.
Only Ragnar, and maybe Mund will not have flanking bonuses.
From: Derk
Subject Round 2 actions
OOC: Good idea.
IC: Allistair shouts: "Somebody give me an opening so that I can shoot a fireball in there!"
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
OK, let me change my earlier actions.
During round 1:
If Mund can still move five feet after shooting two arrows, he'll do so, and then move five feet to the north to make room for his brother.
If he can't still move five feet after shooting two arrows, he'll only shoot one and then move five feet to the north to make room for his brother.
During round 2:
If Mund can still shoot from V2, he'll do so. Otherwise, he'll play bodyguard for his brother.
From: Kevin
Subject Prestige classes
Isn't there a "prestige" class where there are 2 related classes? One is a tracker/rogue type the other is a fighter/rogue type. They are sort of designed to work together.
You two should try that some time.
From: Porter
Subject Prestige classes
I have no idea what you are saying. Was that a joke? Are you talking about rangers?
From: Kevin
Subject Prestige classes
There is in one of the extra D&D books (Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, etc.) or one of the other supplemental books (I can't remember which one) where there is a "prestige" class where there are two types who are designed to work closely together. They are designed to track down and take out people who have violated a group or organization (again, this is from memory). Some of thier base skills complement each other and, while they can work well on their own, they get some kind of synergies working together. There was no slight intended. I wish Mark and I could do a couple of characters that had some type of link that would let them work together very closely (like right now, he is thinking " I wish my POS brother would shut up and stop confusing people". Right, Mark???
I think it would be fun to watch Mund and Allistair spend some time learning how to work together to maximizes each others skills and abilities.
From: Randy
Subject Round 2 actions
If the troll is still alive Ran will full attack. If it is dead, he will attempt to decapitate it. If it is already decapitated, he will call out "Leave the body there! Make them come to us!"
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
Ah.
From memory, there's a knife fighter/sorcer-wizard class, and there's a knif fighter/druid class, and those two work together.
In 2E, a friend and I designed a RandLand Warder system for fighters (well, anybody really) and wizards. We made it very similar to the familiar rules. We made Bond Warder a third-level spell, very similar to the 1st-level spell Find Familiar.
From: Karl
Subject Out of town
FYI - I'm out of town until Monday and will have no email access. Kevin, can you play Salix? (His woefully depleted spell list is up to date on sake)
From: Kevin
Subject Out of town
I will and will do my best to play him well.
From: Derek
Subject Round 2 actions
If he has flaming sphere left, that could be really useful in this battle.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
He does not (sacraficed for the hippogriff that got torn up), but he has one that will work even better for out need - Produce flame. It creates a flame in his hand - it lasts for 1 min/lvl, does 1d6+1 per casted level (max +5 so Salix will do the +5 so he will do at least 6pts of damage). He can do both melee and ranged touch attacks, so if we can get them down, he can burn them dead.
Cool. I like druids.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
Salix watches as the rest of the group congregates around the door, attacking the troll from all sides. They were making a valiant effort, but he knew better. This thing would go down, but would rise up again just a few moments later, probably while its friends were attacking. The only way to really kill it was to burn it or cut its head off. The wizard could probably burn them all up, but that was not really an option. So, it would have to come down the the gruesome option of removing their heads. He could do that if he could not get to the middle of the fight. He would just have to watch out for the long damn arms of thiers. As he moves up between Harp and Ragnar, he says to the dwarf " Try to keep them off of me - I have to cut his head off or he'll just get back up."
OOC: Mark, Salix will ready an action. When (and if) T1 goes down, Salix will move to T5 (provoking a shout of outrage from Surin, I know). He wants to try to move between when the thing goes down and when the next one moves up. He will draw his scimitar as he moves (if he did not have it out already). I am going to try to have him decapitate the trolls as they fall. He is trying to get Ragnar to Aid him, but not sure if he can do it.
From: Jason
Subject Round 2 actions
Ragnar will keep up the taunting and the attacking both.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
"Allistair, if you see a chance - one of those fireballs of yours on those things in the other room would really be helpful"
OOC: Mark, is dragging/moving an object a move action or standard action?
With that, Harp will attack the troll in front of him again.
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Depending on the size it may be both, but at least a move action.
However, moving something like a troll body, which weighs in at 500 lbs or so, would be a full round action that would provoke an AOO if in a threatened square. Also, it would require 2 hands to get a good grip.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
My question was more would it take the place of a standard action. If I remember correctly, I get 1 standard and 1 move, or 2 moves.
Harp can lift off the ground 600 lbs, and can push/drag 1,500 lbs., so 500 he can do. All I am looking at Harp reaching down with one hand, grabbing the troll and pulling it back and to the side so someone else can cut its head off.
Of course, now that I think about it more, it is still a large creature, and I probably do not have the space behind me to do that.
OK, forget that.
Next.
From: Karl
Subject Round 2 actions
It's not down yet, right?
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Correct, it is not down yet. Harp's owner is counting his trolls before they hatch.
From: Porter
Subject Mund
Why wasn't Mund able to get in a shot with his bow? He's got a straight shot, and he was waiting for an opening.
From: Mark
Subject Mund
It would have lowered your initiative score down to after Kal's since your shot would not have been clear until Kal moved out of the way.
However, since Mund is first in the list, he will get a clear shot at the start of next round.
From: Porter
Subject Mund
That's exactly what I wanted to happen -- wait for a shot, and take it when he can.
Can we retcon so that happens?
From: Mark
Subject Mund
You understand that Mund will now be last in the order for the rest of the combat, instead of first?
From: Porter
Subject Mund
I do. :)
From: Mark
Subject Mund
Ok I will add his attack on first thing tonight.
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
Great. Now that Mund is (conveniently) at the the end of the initiative order:
If the troll is still up, he shoots an arrow (or two?) at it.
If the troll is down, he'll draw his axe, rage, and step up into the open space at T3.
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Well the troll is still up, at least until Mund shoots his arrows. It may not be after he shoots. I will see tonight.
If Mund shoots two arrows, that is a full attack action and takes a full round. Mund can rage but not move this round.
If he shoots one arrow he can rage and move.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
You will notice that I did not write up that Harp tried to move the damn thing. I am just trying to make sure that I understand a not commonly used section of the rules.
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
Um, I was actually talking about round 2. But you make a good point, that possibly Mund will drop the troll with an arrow at the end of round 1.
Is it possible to have Mund shoot one arrow, see if he drops, and shoot another arrow if he doesn't, and move in if he does?
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Yes, that is one of the things I was talking about when I asked people to give me contingincies.
So Mund shoots one arrow. If the thing does not drop he shoots another arrow. If the thing does drop he drops his bow and pulls his axe as he rages and moves into position.
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
Right. And I want this to apply to both round 1 and 2. :)
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actoins
Actually, here's what I want to happen (on both turns):
If at any time there's either no troll standing in the opening, or if there is a troll who has already used his AOO, Mund will rage and step forward into the gap.
Otherwise, he'll keep shooting with arrows.
Basically, since Mund is so low in HP, he doesn't want to risk the AOO which would happen by advancing into the open spot, but he'd like to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with everybody else in hacking this thing to death.
From: Derek
Subject Round 2 actions
OOC: OK, I really have no idea waht is going on right now, but Allistair's possible actions are rather limited, so I guess it doesn't matter.
IC: Allistair will move around, trying to get to a spot where he can see in the room and shoot a fireball. He'll move anywhere that doesn't put him in danger of being hit by these trolls.
From: Ashley
Subject Round 2 actions
Surin is relieved to see that his hit did at least some damage to the troll, and could avoid them with some relative ease. He looks for any weak spot on the huge creature that could make it fall easier.
OOC: If there's any way for Surin to get in a flanking position without getting killed, he'll go for a sneak attack. Harp, being Harp, is in the way, but if there's some other way to get in position he'll do it. Would it be possible to go behind Harp and still be in a position to do anything to the troll?
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
There is a very hurt troll halfway through the door. It has Kal and Ran on one side, Harp on the other and Ragnar in front of it. Salix, Surin and Allistair are back more than 10 feet so that it can not reach them. Mund is next to them, shooting arrows and getting ready to move up next to Ragnar if the oppertunity presents itself.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
OOC: Excellent recap of the action so far.
However, the group knows (from Salix's comment) that if the troll goes down, they have to cut off it's head to keep it down. We don't know how long it will stay down before it gets up. We do not know what the brown thing is back in the room (probably some temple to the troll gods granting them extra regeneration). They also know that fire will hurt the trolls more so than normal weapons.
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
If Alley lets his brother know what he wants, Mund could move out of the way so that he can shoot a fireball in.
From: Mark
Subject Round 2 actions
Well the one advantage is that flanking only requires some one else to be on the other side. So Surin could move next to Harp and have Ran supply the flanking bonus to Surin.
Only Ragnar, and maybe Mund will not have flanking bonuses.
From: Derk
Subject Round 2 actions
OOC: Good idea.
IC: Allistair shouts: "Somebody give me an opening so that I can shoot a fireball in there!"
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
OK, let me change my earlier actions.
During round 1:
If Mund can still move five feet after shooting two arrows, he'll do so, and then move five feet to the north to make room for his brother.
If he can't still move five feet after shooting two arrows, he'll only shoot one and then move five feet to the north to make room for his brother.
During round 2:
If Mund can still shoot from V2, he'll do so. Otherwise, he'll play bodyguard for his brother.
From: Kevin
Subject Prestige classes
Isn't there a "prestige" class where there are 2 related classes? One is a tracker/rogue type the other is a fighter/rogue type. They are sort of designed to work together.
You two should try that some time.
From: Porter
Subject Prestige classes
I have no idea what you are saying. Was that a joke? Are you talking about rangers?
From: Kevin
Subject Prestige classes
There is in one of the extra D&D books (Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, etc.) or one of the other supplemental books (I can't remember which one) where there is a "prestige" class where there are two types who are designed to work closely together. They are designed to track down and take out people who have violated a group or organization (again, this is from memory). Some of thier base skills complement each other and, while they can work well on their own, they get some kind of synergies working together. There was no slight intended. I wish Mark and I could do a couple of characters that had some type of link that would let them work together very closely (like right now, he is thinking " I wish my POS brother would shut up and stop confusing people". Right, Mark???
I think it would be fun to watch Mund and Allistair spend some time learning how to work together to maximizes each others skills and abilities.
From: Randy
Subject Round 2 actions
If the troll is still alive Ran will full attack. If it is dead, he will attempt to decapitate it. If it is already decapitated, he will call out "Leave the body there! Make them come to us!"
From: Porter
Subject Round 2 actions
Ah.
From memory, there's a knife fighter/sorcer-wizard class, and there's a knif fighter/druid class, and those two work together.
In 2E, a friend and I designed a RandLand Warder system for fighters (well, anybody really) and wizards. We made it very similar to the familiar rules. We made Bond Warder a third-level spell, very similar to the 1st-level spell Find Familiar.
From: Karl
Subject Out of town
FYI - I'm out of town until Monday and will have no email access. Kevin, can you play Salix? (His woefully depleted spell list is up to date on sake)
From: Kevin
Subject Out of town
I will and will do my best to play him well.
From: Derek
Subject Round 2 actions
If he has flaming sphere left, that could be really useful in this battle.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
He does not (sacraficed for the hippogriff that got torn up), but he has one that will work even better for out need - Produce flame. It creates a flame in his hand - it lasts for 1 min/lvl, does 1d6+1 per casted level (max +5 so Salix will do the +5 so he will do at least 6pts of damage). He can do both melee and ranged touch attacks, so if we can get them down, he can burn them dead.
Cool. I like druids.
From: Kevin
Subject Round 2 actions
Salix watches as the rest of the group congregates around the door, attacking the troll from all sides. They were making a valiant effort, but he knew better. This thing would go down, but would rise up again just a few moments later, probably while its friends were attacking. The only way to really kill it was to burn it or cut its head off. The wizard could probably burn them all up, but that was not really an option. So, it would have to come down the the gruesome option of removing their heads. He could do that if he could not get to the middle of the fight. He would just have to watch out for the long damn arms of thiers. As he moves up between Harp and Ragnar, he says to the dwarf " Try to keep them off of me - I have to cut his head off or he'll just get back up."
OOC: Mark, Salix will ready an action. When (and if) T1 goes down, Salix will move to T5 (provoking a shout of outrage from Surin, I know). He wants to try to move between when the thing goes down and when the next one moves up. He will draw his scimitar as he moves (if he did not have it out already). I am going to try to have him decapitate the trolls as they fall. He is trying to get Ragnar to Aid him, but not sure if he can do it.