Bag of holding and familiars
Subject Familiar
I mean, at this level can't Allistair talk to the littl guy, tell him what he is looking for, and understand what he says when he comes back?
If a small snake can't get into that basement, we are going to have a tough time. Unless some one wants to polymorph into a mouse or rat or some such thing.
From: Mark
Subject Bag of holding
I am going to go by the rules as written.
If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again. If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action--unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action.
Unless you have way for a person to not need air/heat for more than 10 minutes, then Surin would not be able to stay in the bag.
From: Mark
Subject Familiar
His snake has a 9 INT score. He can also talk to the snake and has an empathic link that goes upto 1 mile.
He also has a +15 on hide checks, so that means if he takes 10 with his hide, the snake is +25 to hide. His AC is 21.. His biggest draw back is that he only has 1 HP.
He is about 1-1/2 to 2 feet long, the size of a small garter snake.
From: Kevin
Subject Familiar
I sent Mark a PM about the HP of Allistair's viper. Lets wait to see what he says.
From: Mark
Subject Familiar
Kevin is not right (he is never right) but he may have a point.
Here is the SRD rules for familiars
Familiar Basics: Use the basic statistics for a creature of the familiar's kind, but make the following changes:
Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.
Hit Points: The familiar has one-half the master's total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.
Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to get the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons.
Damage equals that of a normal creature of the familiar's kind.
Saving Throws: For each saving throw, use either the familiar's base save bonus (Fortitude +2, Reflex +2, Will +0) or the master's (as calculated from all his classes), whichever is better. The familiar uses its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn't share any of the other bonuses that the master might have on saves.
Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever are better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use.
So the snake has AC21, 24 HP and moves 15'. There are some skills it can not use due to the fact it has no hands, so slight of hand is out of the question. :)
From: Derek
Subject Familiar
Allistair has his familiar climb out onto his sleeve, where he brings it up to his ear and hisses a few times, talking with it.
"I think Sysyphys has as good of a chance as anyone getting in and out of the basement unobserved. I'm thinking I can leave him there on the grounds overnight and let him try and find a way to the basement. He might find a vent or crack on the outside, and he can always crawl under doors to get inside if need be. What do you guys think?"
From: Derek
Subject Bag of holding
OOC: What if I filled the bag of holding with water and then cast Water Breathing on Surin and had him jump inside? Would you still limit him to 10 minutes, or would he be limited to the duration of the spell?
From: Porter
Subject Bag of holding
You cheeky monkey!
From: Porter
Subject Familiar
"That's a right smart snake you've got there, brudder. I say that if he's willing to, let's let him sneak about. Who knows -- maybe he'll find a lady snake during his overnight adventure."
From: Mark
Subject Breathing water
I hate to rain bad news on you but I would rather do it now becuase I figure that Ally would have heard about all the things people have tried and failed with in the past.
The water breathing spell assumes, at least to me it does, that the breather has access to much water. If a person breathes water for a period of time, the O2 level in the water will decline, eventually suffocating the breather.
I hope that was clear. You would need a way to reoxenginate the water for Surin to survive any period of time.
Do you even have that spell? I know Ragnar or Salix could do it easily.
From: Porter
Subject Bag of holding
Doesn't Hack have a ring which makes it so he doesn't need food, water, sleep, etc. as much? Does it affect how much air he needs?
From: Kevin
Subject Bag of holding
He does have a ring of sustenance, but it only affect sleep and food, not air. It also takes a week or so for the effects to be noticed.
I think the snake looking around would make the most sense while the rest of us get ready to break in/sneak in and rescue the Stormfather.
From: Kevin
Subject Bag of holding
I believe the term would be "Cheese Monkey" when trying to cheese the rules like that.
From: Porter
Subject Bag of holding
Hey, I thought it was really clever, and, IIRC, by going with the strict description of the spell, would work.
Not that I think it's wrong for Mark to disallow it. I would probably disallow it myself.
But still, I thought it was an awesome idea.
From: Kevin
Subject Bag of holding
Oh, I agree it was a creative idea, the problem is my brother usually only likes creative ideas when HE thinks of them.
It is funny that he is relying on basic physics (O2 level dropping as you breath) but doing it while you are supposed to be surrounded by water (that you can beath) and enclosed in an extra dimensional space. Right.
We may still need to get Surin in there, just not stuck in a bag.
From: Ashley
Subject Bag of holding
This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag's contents, depend on the bag's type, as shown on the table below...If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again. If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action--unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action.
If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process."
I was right about the ten minutes thing, but it would probably be cutting it too close for comfort.
From: Jason
Subject Fences
Sorry, I only sent this to Ashley the first time.
Mark, if I remember correctly there is a stone wall around the mayor's house and yard, right? How thick/tall was that wall?
Harp/Ran/Allistair, in your time in the house and grounds and working for the guard detail, what have you picked up about their security? Specifically, can the guards at the gate see the whole yard, or is it big enough that it needs to be patrolled? Is it patrolled? Is it lit at night?
I ask this because really, a stone wall is not much of a barrier to a cleric that can cast stone shape like 4 times a day. Whenever we decide to go in, we might be able to sneak in through the wall.
From: Mark
Subject Fences
The wall is about 6 feet high with another 10 feet of spiked iron fence on top. It is about 5 feet thick at the base. The guards at the front are not able to see the whole yard, mainly becuase of the house. There are three other entrances but those are used by those who have business with the house. If you do not have an appointment you are sent to the front gate. Patrols do roam the grounds, even at night.
Ran will get that info when he goes on duty.
From: Mark
Subject Fences
Ragnar mentions to Ran, "If you ever have the chance to wander the grounds, keep an eye open to see if there's some place that's particularly difficult to see, some out of the way corner or something. Its possible that I could bring us in through the wall, if you can find such a place (and see where it is outside as well.)" Of course if you think that won't work, we'll think of something else."
From: Josh
Subject Bag of holding
Can't the bag hold a metric assload of water along with Surin?
From: Mark
Subject Bag of holding
It has both a volume limit and a weight limit. His Type II bag has a 500 lb limit and a volume of 70 CF. 500 lbs of water would be 62.5 gallons. I am not sure how much space that would take, but then you would have to take out the volume of the halfling and the weight.
My view of the water breathing spell is that it, being a transmutation spell, transmutes the lungs into something akin to gills, or at least something that functions like gills, and allows the person to remove oxygen suspended in the water, just as a fish does. Eventually the oxygen is all gone.
From: Porter
Subject Bag of holding
Think of a typical 50-gallon tank. I could easily, but not comfortably, fit inside one. A halfling would have no problem.
You could also say that it is transmuting the water in the lungs to pure oxygen. I think you may be extrapolating reasons for the magic that aren't supported by the rulebooks.
From: Mark
Subject Bag of holding
First, the halfling will fit easily. I have no problem with that.
Second, since the spell is cast on the person and not the water, than I think I am well with in my rights as DM to say that it changes the person, and not the water.
There are other ways for this to work but the party probably does not have the equipment.
For example there is an Ioun stone that makes it so you do not have to breath. IN that case this would work. And this might work if you only wanted to keep Surin in for a small time. However, it looks like you are looking for hours of storage time.
The actual volume of water is low versus what the bag can hold. The bag has a volume of a space 2 feet x 5 feet x 7 feet high.
The SRD makes no distinction between how long a person can stay in any of the bags, even though the largest has enough space for a 5 x 5 x 10 area.
There may be other limitations on the Magic that keep people from staying in the bag for long periods of time.
From: Porter
Subject Bag of holding
That is an excellent point. I think I'm convinced.
Not that I need to be -- I'd happily go with your call even if I disagreed with it. :)
From: Derek
Subject Bag of holding
I just thought the water breathing was a cool idea, I didn't mean to open a can of worms. (Ally does have that spell, BTW) Also while we're on the subject, are there any restrictions on bringing the bag of holding into a rope trick space? I don't think it's come up yet, but it would be good to know.
From: Mark
Subject Bag of holding
I will have to check. They do mention specific combinations that cause rifts in space/time etc.