sakeriver.com

Rules Ruling

From: Kevin

Subject: Harp's equipment

Mark, here is what I see Harp having purchased during his break.

Sword upgrade to Shocking 4,500

Cloak of Resistance +2 4,000

Handy Haversack 2,000

Wand of CLW x2 1,124

Platinum Rings x2 200

Pearl Fund 100

Total is 11,924. He had 12,300 to work with, leaving 376 gp. Say he spent 76 gp on mundane items (arrows, basic adventuring gear, etc.) and 200 gp as a down payment for the research on the variable shield. That leaves him with 100 gp.

I have both my Sakeriver character sheet printed out, plus my handwritten one I keep as a rough back up. I will need to update it this weekend but could have it pretty much ready in just a few days.



From: Mark

Subject: Character sheet

Ok the archive page problem has been solved and I will be updating the last two weeks of the archives tonight.

Also by the end of this weekend I hope to have all of the character sheets back into the system.



From: Porter

Subject: Rules ruling

Mark,

In your campaign, if someone attempts to sunder a magical weapon being wielded by another, does that weapon get a saving throw in addition to the opposed attack roll?

Argument against:

On page 158 of the the PHB, it clearly describes the rules for sundering weapons. The saving throw is only mentioned in the section for "smashing an object" (page 165), which are a different set of rules similar to, but separate from, the sundering rules, as is apparent in the first paragraph in the "smashing an object" section.

Argument for:

The section on "smashing an object" has other rules which apply to sundering as well, such as the additional hit points a magical weapon has above those of its mundane bretheren. Plus, it says "Magic items *always* get saving throws."



From: Mark

Subject: Rules ruling

I think saving throws are against spells. A sundering attack has special rules(provokes Aoo unless certain feats are present) Also Magic weapons do have a high level of hardness and HP.

I know where you are going with this. The adamantine axe bypasses hardness which makes sundering normal, and some magical, weapons much easier.

Let me look at the rules and talk to my son. He is my rules guru.



From: Porter

Subject: Rules ruling

Yeah, Josh and I have been talking about it back and forth.

Adamantine weapons completely ignore the hardness of any object with a hardness of 20 or less, which means that it would ignore the hardness of any non-special-item magical weapon of +5 or less.

I appreciate you going to the effort of satisfying my curiosity on this regard.



From: Josh

Subject: Rules ruling

The problem I see is that Mund can smash a level 8 character's sword (ahem: Kal) with only opposed attack rolls, something like a 50% chance of success. Throw into the mix that he gets 2 attacks per round, and that's a 75% chance of smashing someone's weapon, at the cost of one attack of opportunity.

Just seems a bit unbalanced to be true; Mund could go around smashing weapons of all our enemies in a few rounds and leave the clean up to the rest of the party.

And this isn't even a result of the Adamantine , really. Mund is capable of dishing out 20 damage, which is enough to smash all but the most hefty weapons even if their hardness isn't ignored.



From: Porter

Subject: Rules ruling

It's always been ridiculously easy to sunder weapons in d20.

That's generally not a problem, because in general, we'd rather kill people and take their loot than destroy their loot then kill them.

It really only comes into play if some uppity elf points his frog-sticker at Mund. ;)



From: Mark

Subject: Rules ruling

I will have to check. It is true that Mund could probably sunder most mundane weapons, but he has paid a pretty penny to do so.

Also I am going to rule, I think, that if the AOO hits and does damage, then the sunder attempt fails automaticaly.

I have to gather all the books and make sure on these rules.

Just remember though that the effects of a weapon count like enchantments, so a +1 rapier with frost and lightenting is effectivly a +3 weapon. That gives it something like +30HP plus the base HP, as well, I think, a higher Hardness.



From: Mark

Subject: Rules ruling

Oh as to the opposed attack rolls.

First, if Kal fights defensively, Mund may never hit the rapier. Second, the two attacks. If Mund tries to sunder with each attack, then Kal gets two AOO.

Maybe Kal should get an adamantine rapier. At that point I would rule that the Hardness is not bypassed.



From: Josh

Subject: Rules ruling

Kal's definitely going to have to make a Sword of Mund Slaying. Just in case, you know.



From: Porter

Subject: Rules ruling

According to the PHB, you can still sunder a weapon even if the AOO succeeds.

Kal's rapier has 35 HP (5 original, 30 from the bonuses) and a hardness of 16 (10 original, 6 from the bonuses).



From: Josh

Subject: Rules ruling

I thought unless you have a special feat (who's names escapes me right now) you only get 1 AOO per round, regardless of the number of opportunities?



From: Porter

Subject: Rules ruling

Fighting defensively wouldn't have any effect -- it's an opposed attack roll. In fact, fighting defensively would make it *easier* to sunder his weapon, because it would give Kal a minus to hit.

A +1 adamantine weapon would have a hardness of 22. Adamantine weapons only bypass the hardness of items with a hardness of 20 or lower. Thus, the hardness would not be bypassed at all.



From: Porter

Subject: Rules ruling

Are there any Munds in the tavern? Because I've got a dagger that's +6 against Munds!



From: Jason

Subject: Rules ruling

Combat Reflexes is what you're looking for. Also, if you're thinking of playing the AOO cancelling the sunder the way you just described, you might want to check out the Improved Sunder feat, because that would probably become very useful.



From: Mark

Subject: rules ruling

Your right. It is Combat Reflexes, I think.



From: Porter

Subject: rules ruling

Concerning automatic failure if the AOO hits:

There are many special attacks which provoke an AOO. These are bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, sunder, and trip.

Two of these, disarm and grapple, say that if the AOO succeeds, the attempt fails.

For the rest, the rules do not say that there are any consequences if the AOO succeeds.



From: Josh

Subject: Rings

Mark, do these rings count toward our 2 max count?



From: Mark

subject: Rings

No as they are not magical in and of themselves.

Until the spell is cast they are just really nice rings.